Post by oaklee on Jan 31, 2006 3:10:17 GMT 11
okay people here is a crash course on genetics for the people out there who are begginers and the non begginers who don`t understand it still.
i don’t know how much you know about genetics, so I’ll now try to explain how the genetics work on a novices level.
There are 3 different types of genetics – recessive, sex-linked and dominant. To get an understanding, you have to realize which colour is linked to which type of gene.
Blue and Pied are recessive. Opaline, Cinnamon, Lutino, Platinum & Lime are sex-linked. Greygreen is dominant.
Once you understand this, it’d become easier to work out your combinations.
What you now have to understand is both parents have to be carrying recessive gene, i.e. Blue or Pied to produce that colour (Blue or Pied). If only one parent is Blue or Pied, then every bird is Split Blue or Pied. When one parent is split to Blue or Pied, the offspring are only possible split. It’s about 20% chance of being split. Therefore, I only say possible. When I sell my birds, I don’t even tell the person if it’s split that colour because you can’t guarantee it. The only way to know is to test breed the bird & prove it.
With the sex-linkeds, the best way for me to explain is imagine a sex-linked gene is gene X. Now each parent gives the offspring one X gene each. So you get one X from the hen, one X from the cock. Now this is the part you need to understand a hen only carries one X gene, i.e. Opaline, Cinnamon, Lutino. Therefore, a hen cannot be split to Opaline, Cinnamon, Lutino. They either have to show the colour or they don’t have it. Now the cock birds carry two X genes. In the case of Cinnamon or Lutino, they need to get one X gene, i.e. Cinnamon or Lutino from the hen and one from the cock. So if the hen is not Cinnamon or Lutino, and the cock is, you’ll only get split cocks and that’s why you get coloured hens. The same goes for a split X gene, i.e. sex-linked. If the cock bird is split and the hen has no colour, the offspring will be possibly split to that X colour (not guaranteed). Again, the only way to know is to test breed the bird & prove it. Now the way the x gene works is they cross over, meaning the cock bird gives the daughters one x gene and one to the sons and the hen gives her x gene to the sons. So the end result is , if the cock is cinammon or lutino every daughter is that colour because dad has given them one of his x genes and remember they only have the one x gene, so therefore a colour. Where as all the sons need one x gene each from mum and dad. That is why you see more sex linked hens around ie lutino or platinum or lime as opposed to cock birds. But the cocks can be normal green split to every colour and throw eight defferent coloured hens.
Here’s where it gets complicated. Cinnamon, Lutino, Lime & Platinum genes are all linked together, i.e. the same family. Basically, they clash together. That’s why I don’t recommend putting Cinnamon & Lutino together. In other species of birds, Cinnamon & Lutino together produce Lacewing. But with the grass parrots, because they are all linked together, they bounce off each other, they don’t connect. The only one that has worked so far is Lutino & Platinum, and Lutino & Lime to produce Lutino Platinums and Lutino Limes. This only works in the cock birds. Because in the hens you’re trying to connect 2 X genes together, and remember, hens only have one. So it’s either lutino or Platinum or lime. They can’t be both. Now in the cock birds, because they carry 2 X genes, you can get one from each parent and they connect to produce Lutino Platinum or Lutino Lime. a few breeders are now trying Platinum and Limes together as well i will talk about that later.
Thats’ why in regards to the lime series bird in the combonations you can not have a Lutino split Lime bird, or a lime split lutino. Or for that matter a blue or normal split lime and lutino. It can’t be split to both. It has to be one or the other because Lutino is one X gene, and Lime is another X gene. If that particular bird was carrying one X gene of both colours, i.e. Lutino & Lime, they would combine and the bird would be a Lutino Lime. This same principle works for lutino and platinum.
In regards to Greygreen or dominant gene, it’s much simpler. If you put a dominant, i.e. Greygreen, Grey, Mustard or Fawn bird with a Normal, 50% of the offspring will be dominant and 50% will be normal. If you put dominant to dominant, 25% will be normal, 50% dominant single factor, 25% dominant double factor. The greygreen gene will mix with every mutation that exist. It will produce a darker version of bird. It works best with blue series birds turning them from blue to grey. In time they will be bred right through the platinum and lime series as well.
Now as i have said earlier a few of the top breeders have been mixing the platinum with the lime genes. I now believe they connect the same way as lutino and lime. Meaning that a platinum lime exists. The problem is they are very hard to tell the difference from the normal platinum and lime birds. I believe they are easier to pick if you add the blue gene, ie lime blue platinum. But still the novice breeders will not pick the difference from a lime blue or a platinum blue. But these cock birds will prove to be very valuable additions to anyones aviary due to the fact that they will throw lime and platinum series hens from the one cock bird.
They are still very much new on the scene this last season and still need alot of test breeding from them to prove the legallity of my last pharagraph.
Now here is the last spanner in the works so to speak of. A fwe of the breeders have contacted me asking if a cinnamon lime exists. well i believe it does. This mutation is called a golden yellow. If you put a cinnamon and a lime together some where you are going to get a connection and produce a cinnamon lime ( golden yellow ). The problem is the percentages are very low of this happening. something like 3 %, so thats 3 in every hundred birds bred. but they are starting to appear slowly and naturally unexpectingly. And to the untrained eye you wouldn`t know the difference. But they are here in my opinion, they are still very new as well and very much untested like the platinum limes. They will be worked on and introduced in the coming years. Then you will see them put across all the other mutations to get golden yellow pieds, golden yellow opalines and greygreen golden yellows and so on and so on. Same goes for the platinum limes.
Well i hope this helps a few people out there. and feel free to ask questions if you don`t understand anything i have said. thats why myself and fox are on this forum.
i don’t know how much you know about genetics, so I’ll now try to explain how the genetics work on a novices level.
There are 3 different types of genetics – recessive, sex-linked and dominant. To get an understanding, you have to realize which colour is linked to which type of gene.
Blue and Pied are recessive. Opaline, Cinnamon, Lutino, Platinum & Lime are sex-linked. Greygreen is dominant.
Once you understand this, it’d become easier to work out your combinations.
What you now have to understand is both parents have to be carrying recessive gene, i.e. Blue or Pied to produce that colour (Blue or Pied). If only one parent is Blue or Pied, then every bird is Split Blue or Pied. When one parent is split to Blue or Pied, the offspring are only possible split. It’s about 20% chance of being split. Therefore, I only say possible. When I sell my birds, I don’t even tell the person if it’s split that colour because you can’t guarantee it. The only way to know is to test breed the bird & prove it.
With the sex-linkeds, the best way for me to explain is imagine a sex-linked gene is gene X. Now each parent gives the offspring one X gene each. So you get one X from the hen, one X from the cock. Now this is the part you need to understand a hen only carries one X gene, i.e. Opaline, Cinnamon, Lutino. Therefore, a hen cannot be split to Opaline, Cinnamon, Lutino. They either have to show the colour or they don’t have it. Now the cock birds carry two X genes. In the case of Cinnamon or Lutino, they need to get one X gene, i.e. Cinnamon or Lutino from the hen and one from the cock. So if the hen is not Cinnamon or Lutino, and the cock is, you’ll only get split cocks and that’s why you get coloured hens. The same goes for a split X gene, i.e. sex-linked. If the cock bird is split and the hen has no colour, the offspring will be possibly split to that X colour (not guaranteed). Again, the only way to know is to test breed the bird & prove it. Now the way the x gene works is they cross over, meaning the cock bird gives the daughters one x gene and one to the sons and the hen gives her x gene to the sons. So the end result is , if the cock is cinammon or lutino every daughter is that colour because dad has given them one of his x genes and remember they only have the one x gene, so therefore a colour. Where as all the sons need one x gene each from mum and dad. That is why you see more sex linked hens around ie lutino or platinum or lime as opposed to cock birds. But the cocks can be normal green split to every colour and throw eight defferent coloured hens.
Here’s where it gets complicated. Cinnamon, Lutino, Lime & Platinum genes are all linked together, i.e. the same family. Basically, they clash together. That’s why I don’t recommend putting Cinnamon & Lutino together. In other species of birds, Cinnamon & Lutino together produce Lacewing. But with the grass parrots, because they are all linked together, they bounce off each other, they don’t connect. The only one that has worked so far is Lutino & Platinum, and Lutino & Lime to produce Lutino Platinums and Lutino Limes. This only works in the cock birds. Because in the hens you’re trying to connect 2 X genes together, and remember, hens only have one. So it’s either lutino or Platinum or lime. They can’t be both. Now in the cock birds, because they carry 2 X genes, you can get one from each parent and they connect to produce Lutino Platinum or Lutino Lime. a few breeders are now trying Platinum and Limes together as well i will talk about that later.
Thats’ why in regards to the lime series bird in the combonations you can not have a Lutino split Lime bird, or a lime split lutino. Or for that matter a blue or normal split lime and lutino. It can’t be split to both. It has to be one or the other because Lutino is one X gene, and Lime is another X gene. If that particular bird was carrying one X gene of both colours, i.e. Lutino & Lime, they would combine and the bird would be a Lutino Lime. This same principle works for lutino and platinum.
In regards to Greygreen or dominant gene, it’s much simpler. If you put a dominant, i.e. Greygreen, Grey, Mustard or Fawn bird with a Normal, 50% of the offspring will be dominant and 50% will be normal. If you put dominant to dominant, 25% will be normal, 50% dominant single factor, 25% dominant double factor. The greygreen gene will mix with every mutation that exist. It will produce a darker version of bird. It works best with blue series birds turning them from blue to grey. In time they will be bred right through the platinum and lime series as well.
Now as i have said earlier a few of the top breeders have been mixing the platinum with the lime genes. I now believe they connect the same way as lutino and lime. Meaning that a platinum lime exists. The problem is they are very hard to tell the difference from the normal platinum and lime birds. I believe they are easier to pick if you add the blue gene, ie lime blue platinum. But still the novice breeders will not pick the difference from a lime blue or a platinum blue. But these cock birds will prove to be very valuable additions to anyones aviary due to the fact that they will throw lime and platinum series hens from the one cock bird.
They are still very much new on the scene this last season and still need alot of test breeding from them to prove the legallity of my last pharagraph.
Now here is the last spanner in the works so to speak of. A fwe of the breeders have contacted me asking if a cinnamon lime exists. well i believe it does. This mutation is called a golden yellow. If you put a cinnamon and a lime together some where you are going to get a connection and produce a cinnamon lime ( golden yellow ). The problem is the percentages are very low of this happening. something like 3 %, so thats 3 in every hundred birds bred. but they are starting to appear slowly and naturally unexpectingly. And to the untrained eye you wouldn`t know the difference. But they are here in my opinion, they are still very new as well and very much untested like the platinum limes. They will be worked on and introduced in the coming years. Then you will see them put across all the other mutations to get golden yellow pieds, golden yellow opalines and greygreen golden yellows and so on and so on. Same goes for the platinum limes.
Well i hope this helps a few people out there. and feel free to ask questions if you don`t understand anything i have said. thats why myself and fox are on this forum.
